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Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

We currently have a 2019 Unity FX and are going to order a new CB.  We do a lot of boondocking and currently have 200 watt solar and AGM batts.  Want to know if anyone has experience with the new lithiums and if they feel they are superior to AGM and worth the investment.  Also - does the extra 200 watt increase battery trickle significantly.  Many thanks for your thoughts.

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #1 –
If you are happy with what you have now, stay with it. For trickle charging batteries all you need is one 100w panel.  If you want to charge low batteries faster, 400watts is always better.  And Lithium is always better for Boondocking.
For extended Boondocking you never have enough batteries or solar!
Some people have installed over 600 watts of solar and over 600amps of Lithium batteries.  Now there are Lithionics batteries out there that have 315 amps but fits in the same space as two 100a batteries, with many extras.  Do some investigating.
What ever you do don’t order factory upgrades, way too expensive for what you get.  After markets will give you better equipment and probably same you money.
Harry
Tempe, Az
2019 Wonder FTB
Toad 2007 Honda Fit

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #2 –
Thank you so much for your insight and information.  I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Harrysalit –
What ever you do don’t order factory upgrades, way too expensive for what you get.  After markets will give you better equipment and probably same you money.

Can you please expand on this a little more. I was in the final stages on going with the LI³ 315ah battery and the options. Are you saying just get the battery and not the other options they have built into it? Where and how much did you pay for your battery please?
Todd W
"LTVnIT" on YouTube

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #4 –
I don’t have  Lithionics batteries, but some people say they are comparable in price,  per amp,  to Battle Borns,  if you consider the extras you get withi Lithionics.  And you ask for the special price for Leisure Travel owners.
LTV gets almost $6000 for 400 watts of solar and 200 amps of Battle .born batteries, under another name.
Harry
Tempe, Az
2019 Wonder FTB
Toad 2007 Honda Fit

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Todd W –
Can you please expand on this a little more. I was in the final stages on going with the LI³ 315ah battery and the options. Are you saying just get the battery and not the other options they have built into it? Where and how much did you pay for your battery please?

I purchased myself 6-100 amp solar panels, and controller for under $1,000. I also bought a 3,000w inverter $1,200. A LI ³ 315 amp hour with LTV discount for $3,900. Other misc items about $800 for a total of about $6,700. Compared to what you get from LTV. I get about a 1/3 more for less than they charge. Rather than wish I had more we just did it. I get our LTV next month and can't wait to start this project. If you go to the Sprinter Forum you will find a ton of help. It does not seem very complicated if you just do a little home work.  That new 315ah LI³ battery is a game changer for me. Soon I will expand that to 600ah hence why I am adding 600 watts of solar and not 400. Sort of the "Boobdocking" package i think they will offer soon I am guessing.
Todd W
"LTVnIT" on YouTube

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Todd W –
Other misc items about $800
That's a good chunk of change for "misc items". Care to expand? Are you changing B2B? I suspect you might want to upgrade the cable AWG. And of course some more/upgraded fuses.
Flat Rock, NC

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: RonS –
That's a good chunk of change for "misc items". Care to expand? Are you changing B2B? I suspect you might want to upgrade the cable AWG. And of course some more/upgraded fuses.

Misc items cabling, shunts, caulk, tools, connectors and other small items. The total cost was give or take +- $500 of what LTV charges but you get 6 panels bot 4, 315ah not 200ah, 3,000w inverter not 2,000w and you can if you want resell the 2,000w inverter that comes with it for about $800 to bring cost down further. You don't really need to upgrade any cables as you are adding all new. I also purchased 1 extra 100w panel for $113 jist incase one breaks so I don't have to worry about getting the exact same panel.

If you look at the Sprinter Forum you will see step by step instructions along with a complete parts list with links to all items used by others down to the stainless steel screws. Just add all to your cart and see what options you want. It really could not get any easier.
Todd W
"LTVnIT" on YouTube

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Gail Suttner –
We currently have a 2019 Unity FX and are going to order a new CB.  We do a lot of boondocking and currently have 200 watt solar and AGM batts.  Want to know if anyone has experience with the new lithiums and if they feel they are superior to AGM and worth the investment.  Also - does the extra 200 watt increase battery trickle significantly.  Many thanks for your thoughts.

We bought the 2021 Wonder LTV RL with the optional Lithium Batteries & very pleased.  We had AGM batteries in our LTV Unity TB, 2013 & with my wife & I using CPap Machines, we always seem to have a problem overnight with running very low or below the minimum % of battery in the morning. 
Now with the 2 100 Amp Lithium batteries, plus we installed the Victron Shunt, we have ample power during the night.  The nice thing about the Victron Shunt, you can pull up your app on the phone after you have the Cpaps running & it gives you a reading of how many hours/days you can go with the draw at the time.
Very good investment for us, & glad we did the Lithium's.
2021 LTV Wonder Rear Lounge - White Suede

2013 LTV Unity Twin Bed (Sold)

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #10 –
We switched from AGM's to 200AH of Lithium. Power is no longer an issue period. I don't even need to plug in. We have all kinds of things running and there is ample power. LTV charges a lot for them, but I would probably just bite the bullet. My 2020 Unity has 200w of solar. It seems fine much to my surprise, but again, would I get the 400w. Yeah, Do you need it, yeah/no. Hey congrats on getting a new one. I hope to see you at the LTV gatherings. Those are a blast.
Thank you wonderful Leisure Travel Van brothers and sisters!

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Todd W –
I purchased myself 6-100 amp solar panels, and controller for under $1,000. I also bought a 3,000w inverter $1,200. A LI ³ 315 amp hour with LTV discount for $3,900
Todd, do you remember how much the 315 amp battery was without the LTV discount? I'm assuming you bought from Lithionics. Also, is freight included in the $3900. US$
Flat Rock, NC

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #12 –
Ron S
I think they were $4500.  A bonus for you is that they are n Clearwater.  You can pick up and pick their brain!
Everyday is a good one; some are better than others

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Kim Heinicka –
Ron S
I think they were $4500.  A bonus for you is that they are n Clearwater.  You can pick up and pick their brain!
Yup, I know. I've contacted them but still haven't received a quote. That's why I asked if the $3900 included shipping. OTOH, I'll be paying FL sales tax (which is probably much more $$$ than shipping costs).
Unfortunately, looks like I won't be getting the discount since I don't have LTV (yet). In my contact email I mentioned learning about Lithionics on a LTV forum and got a quick response email from the owner Stephen Tartaglia. He invited me to take the tour when I picked-up the battery(s). He even called and talked to my wife. But when he found out I didn't currently own an LTV product he seemed to loose his enthusiasm. Haven't heard from him since.
I'm still not sure if I need the 315Amp battery. I suspect two of the new 130Amp version would be more than enough. $4500+tax is pretty steep for an occasional boondock.  Or I might need to take another look at BattleBorn.
Flat Rock, NC

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Gail Suttner –
We currently have a 2019 Unity FX and are going to order a new CB.  We do a lot of boondocking and currently have 200 watt solar and AGM batts.  Want to know if anyone has experience with the new lithiums and if they feel they are superior to AGM and worth the investment.  Also - does the extra 200 watt increase battery trickle significantly.  Many thanks for your thoughts.
if you really want to know if you need to upgrade it is a good idea to know how many Amp/hours you are using overnight and if the batteries recharge with the setup you have.  Installing a Victron Shunt 500A is a cheap investment to find out what you actually use or if you need more.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GjcGZsK4fI
With the shunt I found out that our 2x 100W old flex panels and GC2 original lead acid batteries in our 2016 MB is all we needed even without using the generator to top up.  Batteries are 5 yrs old and still going strong.

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #15 –
We have the 315Ah LI³ and put on 600 watts of solar. The battery is the best part about it. I can run my AC even with it. We did not order any solar or battery upgrade. I did solar, 315Ah Li³ battery and put a 3000 watt inverter in all for the same price LTV charges but we have twice the system for the sam price.

Regarding 200 9r 400 watts of solar that is an easy question. 400 watts all day over 200. Better to have more than just enough. 
Todd W
"LTVnIT" on YouTube

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Todd W –
Misc items cabling, shunts, caulk, tools, connectors and other small items. The total cost was give or take +- $500 of what LTV charges but you get 6 panels bot 4, 315ah not 200ah, 3,000w inverter not 2,000w and you can if you want resell the 2,000w inverter that comes with it for about $800 to bring cost down further. You don't really need to upgrade any cables as you are adding all new. I also purchased 1 extra 100w panel for $113 jist incase one breaks so I don't have to worry about getting the exact same panel.

If you look at the Sprinter Forum you will see step by step instructions along with a complete parts list with links to all items used by others down to the stainless steel screws. Just add all to your cart and see what options you want. It really could not get any easier.

Todd W, any chance you could provide a link to the list on the Sprinter Forum you are referring to?

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Todd W –
I purchased myself 6-100 amp solar panels, and controller for under $1,000. I also bought a 3,000w inverter $1,200. A LI ³ 315 amp hour with LTV discount for $3,900. Other misc items about $800 for a total of about $6,700. Compared to what you get from LTV. I get about a 1/3 more for less than they charge. Rather than wish I had more we just did it. I get our LTV next month and can't wait to start this project. If you go to the Sprinter Forum you will find a ton of help. It does not seem very complicated if you just do a little home work.  That new 315ah LI³ battery is a game changer for me. Soon I will expand that to 600ah hence why I am adding 600 watts of solar and not 400. Sort of the "Boobdocking" package i think they will offer soon I am guessing.

Any chance we could see a photo of your panel layout on top of your Unity? I want to do the same but LTV only has 4 panels and the roof seems full.

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Dan Stapleton –
Any chance we could see a photo of your panel layout on top of your Unity? I want to do the same but LTV only has 4 panels and the roof seems full.

I will get a picture but cannot for another week as I am out of town. I could not be happier with the use of electrical struts for mounting. I put 6-100 watt panels on top. I also have room yet for 2 kayaks on top mounted to the struts also like a roof rack on a car. Keep on mind on the right side on the RV we mounted 4 panels and one of them goes right over the shower sky light. It still let's in plenty of light in but does not send in all that solar heat in the shower. I really like how it turned out.
Todd W
"LTVnIT" on YouTube

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #19 –
Here are some side pictures of the panels mounted. They are attached to the top of 1.5" electrical struts. Also notice i ran the one panel over the top of the sky light. It is nice as a ton of heat always came in that and not any more. Will get top picture when next up on top. The panels are tiltable.
Todd W
"LTVnIT" on YouTube

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #20 –
We have a 2019 Unity IB and have just replaced my 2 flooded batteries with AGMs. I have modified the charging specifications on the solar controller and Magnum charger/inverter to AGM but for the life of me I can't find the location of the Sterling Battery to Battery charger to make a similar change. Where is that unit hidden?🤯

Thanks

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Idler –
but for the life of me I can't find the location of the Sterling Battery to Battery charger to make a similar change. Where is that unit hidden?
Not 100% sure on your yr/model but did you look under the passenger seat? On the door side,  the black plastic cover is removeable.
BTW, the Sterling is  a real PITA to configure.
Flat Rock, NC

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #22 –
The top 9f our Unity TB 2021. Room still for a cargo carrier on the far side or a couple kayaks??
Todd W
"LTVnIT" on YouTube

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #23 –
Thanks Ron. It looks I have to actually remove the seat
on my model and the battery to battery is under it.

Re: Lithium Batteries or AGM / 200 or 400 watt solar?

Reply #24 –
200 or 400 it does not matter. What matters is the size of your battery bank. The most efficient is a 48 volt battery bank, such as 8 - L16 batteries wired to make 48 volts. The Morningstar Tristar charge controller can be configured for 12, 24 or 48 volts. There some panels however are wired in series or series in parallel up to 600 volts to reduce the wire size needed to transmit the panel amperage to the charge controller.